So, a forum I go to recently discussed whether identity politics helps or hurts the liberal brand, with focus on whether it hurts. And of course, as always, liberals were clueless as fudge. The format of this post is going to be a little different and unique. I would like to focus on quoting stuff that posters said there, and explain why I find their views so objectionable. Without further ado, let's begin.
A big myth that conservatives have managed to get into the general public consciousness is the thought that "identity politics" is a thing that only minorities can engage in. Black people wanting equality is treated as "identity politics", but the white nationalist "Great Replacement Theory" is not. White is considered the "default", so white people's concerns are treated as just standard politics rather than "identity politics".
The fact of the matter is that everyone engages in some form of identity politics because everyone has an identity and that identity informs what you believe, for whom you feel an affinity, what you prioritize, etc. You can't just "not do identity politics". American vs. foreign is identity politics. Rich vs. poor is identity politics. Et cetera.
This is just deflecting the issue with "but but but the republicans" nonsense. Yes, the great replacement theory is identity politics. A lot of trumpism is based on white identity politics. And most of the party...is white. And while that stuff might deflect nonwhite voters, the same can apply to identity politics on the democratic side in reverse. The difference is that while whites are a majority of the population, minorities are not.
It should also be noted I abhor all identity politics as far as race goes. And honestly, great replacement theory and explicit "im afraid for the future of the white race" nonsense is fairly niche even among republicans. Not that that stuff isn't appealing to SOME voters, but trump's coalition is much more diverse than just white supremacists. Liberals don't get this. They get so high on their own BS, going on about how anyone who isn't actively turned off of that stuff is "okay with racism" when in reality i just think most conservatives don't care.
Either way I will agree with the point that republicans have a nonwhite voter problem. There's a reason 90%+ black voters and roughly 2/3 of Hispanics and Asians vote for democrats. Because republicans suck at appealing to nonwhite people. At the same time, democrats suck at appealing to white people in my opinion at times. It's almost as if, identity politics just sucks no matter who is spewing them. Either way this guy seems to be ignoring the problem.
As far as the second point, we all know identity politics is normally amount immutable characteristics like race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc. We're not talking class here and stuff. This guy is just denying the problem.
The same people who whine about identity politics and virtue signaling have Twitter bios like: Red-blooded GOD-fearing CHRISTIAN family man who loves freedom
Really? Because I'm a progressive ex christian who had a very long atheist/antitheist phase and is now spiritual. And I'm not right wing virtue signalling at all. I hate these politics from the left primarily. Because I feel like we can't get anything done on economics because they just dominate all discussions. Thats my problem.
Or, put another way, how can I NOT be fed up with identity politics when the democratic establishment repeatedly weaponized them against candidates I supported while decrying people like me as racist, sexist, etc. for the past 5 years? Every primary it's the same crap. I'm called sexist for not voting for a woman or racist for not voting for a black person. The neolibs circlejerk about the black vote and all of these other niche votes that vote as a bloc for establishment candidates, etc. I mean, why would I be pro identity politics after it's used in such a crappy and cynical way? I despise those politics. And I'm on the "left".
I can't remember the quote, but it was something like:
In America, there are two races: White and "controversial".
There's two religions: Christianity, and "controversial".
There's two sexes: Male, and "controversial".
There's two sexualities: Straight, and "controversial".
More deflection and projection. I admit privilege is a thing, but ramming the concept down peoples' throats doesnt make any friends. For me at least it's about how it's pushed rather than the concepts. I consider myself tolerant toward all honestly. Just dont shove that stuff in my face and expect me to be part of the circlejerk. And dont weaponize the circlejerk against me. I'm put off because this crap is pushed on me, and then these guys gaslight me by denying it's happening in the first place. Common thread here.
I think there is this myth some people want to buy into that engaging in identity politics is something the left is choosing to do and that they are somehow frivolous and unnecessary. I think in practice the left is being forced to engage into them in response to the right's near open appeals to racism and nationalism against any sort of outsiders. While I tend to agree that the strawmen version of identity politics would be frivolous the actual issues being addressed are not.
I don't want to come across as suggesting we're not making some mistakes in our messaging that could be improved upon without actually altering out positions and thus giving something up, but I think short of actually abandoning those important positions the right is going to characterize and malign what we're doing as "identity" politics so it won't change the fundamental problem to the extent it exists.
No one seriously wants to abandon "important positions", just tone down the rhetoric a lot. It's a rhetorical problem. Democrats have a horrible time of pushing stuff in the most obnoxious ways possible. Let's go back to what made the victories on gay marriage possible.
The right wanted to ban gay marriage, pushing their religion, and claiming their position had the backing of "God." Whereas, we are supposed to be a secular republic with separation of church and state, and there's literally no serious arguments against the concept that don't rely on religion. Once I dropped religion, I abandoned my opposition toward gay marriage. Hell, recognizing the split between my political views based in consequentialism and the religious approach to the issue caused a bit of cognitive dissonance long before hand, and this played a role in my deconversion too.
The fact is, once religion is removed from the equation, the real question comes down to "what's the harm"? Seriously, once I shifted from divine command theory to a more consequentialist framework, my support for gay marriage grew immensely. And I moved left on all sorts of issues.
Amazing how that works. This isn't an abandonment of gay marriage, but if you ram homosexuality down everyone's throats and circlejerk about it constantly and weaponize it against other voting blocs, that's when the fights start. And that's where I'm at this stuff. I have nothing against anyone inherently really. I want people to live whatever lives they want. But the second you try to force me to care and force me to change my views and force me to take part in your circlejerk, I'm gonna have a fight.
And that said, I would argue the opposite. I'm not sure if trump would've won regardless, but I do think what hurt hillary was identity politics. That's what she hinged her campaign on. Attacking her political enemies as sexists and deplorables. She burned so many bridges with people. And then those people turned on her.
Honestly, pre 2016, I didn't even think a republican could win the presidency any more. It seemed clear to me after the failed mccain and romney candidacies that the GOP had no path in the electoral college. What led to the rise of trump was a realignment regarding widespread resentment toward liberals and liberal culture. And a lot of that had to do with this. Remember how I said not a lot of people care about white identity politics? Well, a lot of those apathetic people are gonna back trump when the democrats make that the front and center issue. The fact is, trump won, because of the focus on these issues. They chose the worst framing possible and undid all of the progress they made during the obama era. I never would have become a liberal, if i were a conservative now. I came over because a decade ago the battle lines were different. There was more focus on economics. Obama at least cared somewhat about the working class. Social issues werent about wokeness, they were about "look at these crazy fundie christian".
All the democrats really have to do on these issues is watch the GOP fall flat on its face as it argues against a massive strawman. What you don't do is literally egg them on and make the strawman real. I didn't even think SJWs were much of a real force when I ebcame a liberal. Sure, they always existed, but the majority of democrats seemed sane. Now SJWism is a dominant force, and it actually makes the right more palatable. I want to repeat, as a former right winger, the democrats' current strategy is what drives right wing support, not the other way around. There's no need to fight the trumpers head on. All they need to do is point and laugh at how stupid these people are, while having a good platform, and they'll win elections in a landslide.
Identity politics is the central focus of the right. They are 100% a white identity / white grievance party and have been by design for a long time. They wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t work for them.
The issue like so many others is that we suck at messaging and they don’t. So we find some dumb phrase and they amplify that and frame a message around it and chip away a few people here and there until they swing the 2-3% they need to win.
More deflection to the right. You know, "the right does it" doesn't excuse you. Again, you can't use the same strategy as they can, because you're literally comparing a white majority party appealing to a white majority electorate vs niche issues that impact minorities of the electorate. Either way, focusing primarily on this front sucks as other issues are abandoned.
I acknowledge the right is dumb. That's the thing. I crap on this stuff, but i acknowledge, yeah, the right sucks. That doesn't excuse the left.
As far as "dumb phrases", it depends. White fragility is kind of a losing battle. So is privilege. But the issue is deeper. It's the tone, it's the abrasiveness, it's the attempt to intentionally create division within politics. As a white dude, I'm turned off. I don't care about trump's white identity politics either. That crap is just a ruse to distract people from the economics. I'm not gonna base my politics on resenting brown people. That's stupid and unhelpful. I want to actually push solutions that are divorced from this stupid infighting altogether.
Really, a reason I hate politics right is is everything on both side is getting taken over by identity over policy and ideology. We can't get our crap together because trumpers are fighting with idpol people, and here I am in between like OMG ALL OF YOU SHUT UP. I just come down harder on the democrats, because well, im kinda more pissed at the democrats. The republicans have been dead to me for a decade. Them sucking goes without saying.
Both, although it's worth noting that Republicans have been playing identity politics for decades and are often the progenitor of specific "culture war" issues. For example, when Southern states entertain Bathroom bills by conjuring mental images of predatory trans women from thin air, I'm not sure how Democrats are supposed to respond to that except by taking preventative measures in the states they control. Otherwise, they abandon the LGBT demographic they've promised to support.
(Probably also worth noting that pro-gay sentiment plays well with a lot of independently-minded non-LGBT peoples' sympathies at the polls, but that fact is often missed in favor of treating bigots as the only "real" voters.)
Look, nothing is wrong about playing defensively against the GOP. As long as its defensive. Frame it as "protecting individual liberty" or something. Because that's what it is. Again, the democrats get the moral high ground when they can point at the GOP and go "look at how stupid these people are". Theres nothing wrong with laws that protect gay rights. The problem is when democrats shove that stuff in an insufferable way come campaign time, while neglecting other issues.
I feel like liberals really don't understand the problem here.
I mean, I could go on and on, but it's the same crap. Liberals seem to suck at acknowledging there's a problem here, and even worse their big thing is "so what the right does it too". YALL SUCK FOR DOING IT. While I acknowledge they make good points about the right pushing their explicitly racist and jingoistic version of those politics, this is just such an immature approach to the problem. It's like two kids flinging food at each other and one of them pointing to the other and saying they started it. Being the adult, I don't care who started it, I just want it to stop.
Seriously, identity politics is dumb in general. We need to stop being so tribalistic about crap like skin color and homosexuality. I really don't want to see politics in this way. I would rather be focused on other stuff, like UBI and healthcare. But sadly we cant even seriously discuss those issues because the two parties are bickering over this crap. And the democrats, rather than being the mature ones and stopping it simply by mocking and deriding the right (which would be my strategy), they end up becoming insufferable in pushing it themselves. And they end up pissing off allies because they end up weaponizing it against progressives who DO care about other issues. It's frustrating. Liberals are clueless.
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