So, Cenk Uygur appeared on Krystal, Kyle, and Friends and had a debate over the direction of the left. And...I have mixed views. The focus of this debate is on Cenk's strange direction of trying to appeal to MAGA, whereas Krystal and Kyle want to focus on BEATING MAGA, not winning them over.
This has led to lots of spats on the online left between TYT and others, and in a lot of discussions I've been at least somewhat sympathetic to Cenk, but here, I'm largely going to agree with Krystal and Kyle.
Look, MAGA isnt saveable. It's a toxic, fascist movement that represents everything wrong with the world. It has to be stopped. That isnt to say that everyone who supports it is necessarily bad. A lot of desperate, ignorant people who are moderates probably voted for them, but the die hard maga people? Yeah, they can't be saved. We shouldnt be playing footsie with Charlie Kirk, and the idea that some MAGA want to cut defense spending doesnt mean we have much in common. Anti war leftists are so out of humanitarian principles. THe right is so out of selfishness. The right has no humanity. They look on at the genocide of Gaza, and many would probably agree with it. They will probably fall in line behind Trump's attacks on Iran. They're not actually that principled. Reminder: Bush ran in 2000 as a relatively isolationist candidate foreign policy wise. He was "America First" before the modern movement was a thing. Then 9/11 happened and we all saw what happened after that. And now history is repeating itself with Iran, even though we werent attacked at all.
And honestly? Most of MAGA has views so disgusting theres no compromising with them. Reminder: the right is EVIL. And while I would agree with cenk that "the establishment" is a problem, its a problem because it is too much in agreement with the right. Especially on economics. They compromise with the right half way, and kind of have this "Vichy France" vibe to them. Like, complicit with the fascists at times, but arguably not really given much latitude to do anything else. Still, not remembered by history well. The left needs to be populist to save its soul from these establishment sellouts. We can't just disavow the establishment while playing footsie with the actual right. Which is what Cenk is doing.
We also need to be careful what moral compromises we make when trying to win over swing voters. This is where I am a bit more sympathetic to Cenk. Like, take trans women in sports. I don't have a super strong opinion either way here, my opinion is "follow the science" and the science is complicated. BUT...wanna know what isn't complicated? POLLING. Like 20% of Americans are supportive on this issue, like 70% are against it. Thats very stacked against us. While I do think we should be for trans rights, the "max left" as TYT calls them kinda think we should go all in with that 20% gung ho on it when...is that going to serve our interests long term? Same with immigration. Biden wasnt a flagrant open borders liberal. He was a moderate. A whole lot better than Trump, and he tried to bend to where the public was, since most wanted right wing action on the issue.
I mean, if you're on the LOSING SIDE of an issue, trying to moderate a bit is reasonable. And I support Cenk here. The "max left" or the SJW left, is way too shrill and uncompromising on these issues, and if history shows anything, it's that refusing to bow to public pressure and to act all shrill and self righteous is just gonna alienate people and create a coalition of voters AGAINST US. So...if the dems have to make minor concessions with the right to win voters, so be it. Im just against their fetishization of the IDEA of compromise and meeting the right half way on EVERYTHING, especially when unnecessary.
As such, I do sympathize a little with Cenk when he reads the writing on the wall on issues that are deeply unpopular with the American people, but I do believe Cenk is doing is own weird fetishization of compromise. It has a more populist ethos of "yeah were both against the establishment", but hes also doing that which makes me hate the establishmment in the first place. Which is to sell out when we dont need to sell out and to compromise.
Kyle likes to bash these people as "having conversations about having conversations" a lot on his show. Like the idea that "we need to have conversations with the right, bro, and try to find common ground, bro." Nah, F the right. Did I mention that they're evil? I literally keep making posts saying that on here and I'm not kidding. If you boil down right wing ideology within my own moral lens, it's literally comic book crap. Like, I cant even agree with right wingers that the reduction of suffering is a good thing. We literally dont share that as a moral goal. And if we cant even agree with them on such a basic first principle of morality, then why should we even bother talking to them? THEY'RE FRICKING EVIL. Like, comically so!
Look, as I see it, there's 1/3 of the country that's ALWAYS wrong. They're ALWAYS on the wrong side of history. They supported the monarchy in the American Revolution. They supported the confederacy in slavery during the civil war. They supported the gilded age during the new deal. They supported or were sympathetic to the Nazis during WWII. And now, they're the republican party. Regressive, evil, supporting trump and being ride or die on his destructive ideology. You got 1/3 of the country that is on the right side of history. The progressives. The free thinkers. The people who look at society, point out injustice, point out how we can do things better, and go for it. And then you got the middle 1/3. The middle 1/3, when we talk about appealing outside of our bubble, is who were focused on. Right now a lot of those middlers are supporting Trump. And they do so often for bad reasons, but to be fair, the democrats do an awful job appealing to them, and the dems just arent on the same page as the country at times. And the establishment prefers to lecture these people and bully them rather than meet them where they are and change things for the better. Which is where the PROGRESSIVES will actually do better, and where we DO need a populist left. But that doesnt mean we should go into MAGA territory, meet them eye to eye, and have "conversations about having conversations." No, F them. Rather, we gotta focus on peeling those moderates away from them ON OUR TERMS. We gotta embrace economic populism to tell them that we can make their lives better. And on social issues, we gotta drop the shrill SJW vibes we have and stop lecturng and condescending people, but largely keep doing the same thing. Maybe we make concessions here on there on trans people in sports or immigration for the sake of electability. Im FINE wiith that. But that doesnt mean we should embrace trump's fascism on those issues either. Biden was for a fair and humane approach to immigration, mostly. And the dems were still pro trans for the most part. Again, we're compromising around the edges. Not giving up our core convictions but kinda just, giving up on the fringes to consolidiate our support elsewhere. It's like a battle, do a tactical retreat on one front to gain ground on another.
So....that said, the max left gets a lot wrong, and cenk is right that we should tactically moderate at times. But again, theres a difference between that and playing footsie with MAGA. And Krystal and Kyle are about 80% correct on this issue. Cenk is only like 20% correct. And if there's anything I agree with Cenk on, it's being on the 20% side of an 80-20 issue generally doesnt work out for you.
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