So, r/aspergers had a discussion a few days ago about how to best stop autistic men from falling into incel rabbitholes. And I gave my honest opinion. I know autistic men who have gone down that rabbit hole, and I have myself faced the same issues and pressures that these men face. But, I wouldn't consider myself an incel. Wanna know why? Because incels are extremely toxic and sexist toward women and I find those attitudes unhelpful. Anyway, r/aspergers didn't like my post and banned me for three days. Called it "incel bull####" or something. it wasn't, but the mods didn't wanna hear it.
Anyway, r/aspergers might not be good on discussing this stuff, and I'm gonna post about that later, but first, I wanna post my original comment unadulterated. THIS is what they banned me for:
Not sure if this is a popular opinion, but my honest opinion? Drop the "woke" crap.
Most autistic people are males, and most arent exactly socially adept and go against the grain. But that stuff is like a "religion" these days. There's a lot of virtue signalling and blah blah blah and it seems very...NT in nature, to put things that way. Like either you're "in" or you're not. It's very cliquey.
And these guys tends to crap on autistic men a lot. If they cant get a girlfriend and they vent online about it, what happens? You get these self righteous people go on about how "you're not entitled to affection" and blah blah blah, and while it's technically true on some level, it comes off as self righteous as fudge. Like sometimes men just want their own shoulder to cry on. They want to vent about frustration and I feel like a lot of these social justice type people like to kick people while they're down. In some ways, they TURN people into incels because what's their reaction going to be after a while? "F these guys". They turn against that stuff. They start ranting against that stuff. They find support with the likes of "men's rights" groups (and that "manosphere" is toxic as hell and a literal gateway to incel mindsets) and they end up on 4chan because any time they dare express their honest opinions on this site some moderator who cant tolerate dissent will ban them, and they listen to people like Jordan Peterson, and you get the idea?
As I see it, the key is to stop them from ever going down that rabbit hole. But if you wanna do that, then you gotta drop the woke stuff. You gotta stop treating these guys like the problem is THEM and they just dont get it and that they need to learn this and blah blah blah.
Im not saying that the idea that someone isnt entitled to affection and stuff like that isn't true. Of course it's true. I'm saying that self righteously virtue signalling it to a venting guy, or calling him "creepy" for liking someone and not knowing how to express it properly (common issue with autistic men), and blah blah blah doesn't help, and probably actually hurts. because sometimes it polarizes people AGAINST that stuff, driving them to the same manosphere rabbit hole we don't want people to go down.
And I know some people might self righteously say "screw them" or try to argue with me on this, arguing that they dont see the problem and people need to learn X and blah blah blah...but honestly, if that's you, I ask you to consider if maybe you're part of the problem here. Are your attitudes helpful? Are they constructive? How do you think someone who doesn't see eye to eye with you is going to respond to your attitudes?
I knew someone who kind of went down that path once. He was MGTOW, he was extremely sexist toward women, he HATED the woke stuff to the point it became his literal special interest and he would rant to me about it day and night until I told him to stop and he wouldn't. Wanna know what he once told me about being alt right? That alt right is just being willing to say "no" to these people, by these people, he meant, the social justice left, the people pushing those attitudes. As I see it, those guys, in their self righteousness and obnoxiousness, drive people away, and they end up making enemies. Like people who are normal fence sitters and who probably dont have strong opinions can easily go down that rabbit hole because someone pissed them off and they had a bad day. And if the mainstream isn't going to provide that person with the proper support for their problems, who do you think will? The alt right will, duh.
I don't think that my comment was that bad, outside of my sleight against reddit moderators (they literally performed par with the course). Which was admittedly stealthily aimed at these guys because I had a previous problem with these guys before when I literally did vent about something at a rather dark point in my life. But to be fair, it wasn't just them, it was the idea that anyone who dares disagree with wokeism gets the ban hammer for no apparent reason these days. These reddit moderators are like little dictators. You give them the tiniest bit of power, and they feel the need to police what people have to say to the point they create an echo chamber. This is no different here.
To analyze my comment in more detail.
I mean, it's true in my experience. I'm the kind of male who has been unsuccessful with the ladies, and I totally get the struggles of the issue. While I'm in a relatively good place there right now, where I feel more at peace with myself, I struggled with these issues for years. And I still struggle with self image problems. How do I talk to women? Am I creepy? What is the right way to approach them? And woke people make it hard. Traditionally, men are expected to take on all the effort of "pursuing" women, with women taking a more passive role, and while I know things are slightly different, i don't think things have changed that much. This expectation still trends into the era of gender egalitarianism. But...women tend to have a negative perception toward the role of being the reciever of requests, despite the fact that society still seems to expect that of them. If a man they're interested in approaches them, they're fine, if they're not interested, it's creepy. If someone is autistic and a little off and doesn't know how to express their views, they're also creepy. Like, basically, it's a no win situation. Now, I'm not an incel. Incels are the male equivalent of the man hating feminist, railing about how women are evil and blah blah blah. I'm better than that. But this IS a discussion about how to stop men from going down that path, and I think dropping the woke crap IS the answer.
I mean, the woke crap doesn't help. As I said, sometimes men just wanna vent. They wanna express their concerns, but then when they do, they're crapped on for it. They're told self righteously, "well you're not entitled to affection and blah blah blah." And I agree with them. The scary thing about incels is eventually they do expect affection and reduce women to sex objects. But, again, self righteously getting in peoples face and kicking them when they're down is NOT the answer.
Again, the SJWs love to do this weird virtue signalling thing of telling people obvious things and getting in their face about it. And after a while, you eventually get to the point of being like "F these guys".
I expected pushback. I mean, r/aspergers is an SJW craphole and it was full of comments from women who were like OMG MEN ARE SCARY AND I LIVE IN FEAR OF THEM AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. And it's kinda ridiculous. Yeah, some men are scary. But men also...have feelings, and are people too. You need to sometimes be a little more sympathetic. Especially on a freaking internet message board where people are communicating with you via a screen. You're not gonna get raped through your screen. ANd if they do send an unsolicited picture of genitalia...well that's fair game for harassment and moderation.
As far as the last part, well, that was literally a friend of mine, or more specifically an ex friend. He wouldnt stop going on with his toxic BS so i kicked him out of my life. Reconnected with him years later, he just got worse. It didnt even last a day before I was done.
But...I think he offers a cautionary tale. When I first knew him, he was more liberal. Had some incel type features, and dealt with some severe traumas from previous relationships that turned him sexist, but yeah. I think examples like his are worth showing. How can we seriously discuss this issue, if we do not have an open and honest discussion about inceldom?
Honestly, the whole ANTI-PC movement, is a response to the PC movement. Eventually people do get fed up with all of this crap and they become anti PC. I'm anti PC, but not in the way they are. I simultaneously recognize the validity of the PC crowd's points, while also coming out hard against them because they are just a toxic insufferable circlejerk. Now, imagine how bad these people must be if i can find common ground with them and i STILL hate them. It aint even their views that i hate, it's culture and how they express those views. And the zero tolerance BS is a huge issue i have too. They gotta militantly push their opinions, they gotta make it a huge part of their political identity, and they gotta suppress anyone who disagrees with them, even if they, like me, come at it from a relatively constructive perspective.
It's not hard to imagine how the incel trap works. Eventually, people do get fed up. And they join the counter movement. THeir hearts become full of hate, and it's because people weren't there for them when they needed them. Again, if feminist and woke groups arent there for them when they need help, and the MRAs are, why would they NOT join the MRAs? Do you not realize how easy it is for youtube to drip feed you this content if you are in a vulnerable state?
In a different life, or even in this life with a couple different if variables, I easily could've become these guys. I think inceldom is, to some extent, a matter of ignorance, but it's mostly a matter of falling in with the wrong sub groups. As I see it, if people aren't given more constructive help when they need it, they will get help from those who DO listen. Even if those guys are toxic themselves.
As I said, you scream at them that they're not entitled to affection, you ban them from forums for daring to express their opinions, and you get them watching people like JORDAN FREAKING PETERSON, and you can't be surprised when people fall into that crowd. As I see it, if you wanna fix the issue, you gotta fix it before they go down that path. Because that path will indoctrinate/brainwash them into those mindsets. No one is born an incel. Incels are made. Incels are people who are full of hate from past hurts and have been radicalized into some bad political ideologies. Let's face it.
And with that said, let me now vent about THAT SUBREDDIT. That subreddit has never been a safe space for autistic males to express their concerns. Ya know, a few years ago, I was in a relatively dark place. A lot of crap went down, and I wasn't feeling very good about myself. A love interest of mine not only rejected me, they basically destroyed my self esteem on the way out of their life. To not pull any punches, they told me that I was a loser for my anti work views more or less and that no woman would ever ever wanna date me, because women want someone who are providers. I repeated what they said once on r/aspergers. I didn't think it was bad, I thought it was technically realistic. Well, I got a lot of comments saying that that was hateful toward women and that it was "incel logic" and I got temp banned then too. I didn't even think that was bad. I mean, you guys know my views on here. And you could probably imagine how being told that messed up my self esteem and made me feel unlovable. But, instead of offering a helping hand, they banned me for it. It was a temp ban, but regardless, yeah, that sucked.
TO be fair, some comments i got before it got taken down did shake me out of that harmful mindset. I realized, yeah maybe not all women are like that, and that maybe she was just a piece of crap. Kind of ironic that a liberal woman rejecting me said nasty things to me that could be construed incel logic. And after that I kind of realized the issue was her and I regained some self esteem. I still struggle with some image issues due to those comments, and it has made me more reluctant to try to date after that, but yeah. I did basically realize that yeah, to some extent, the problem wasn't me, it was her. She was out of line for telling me that. Of course, it was the POSTERS who convinced me of that, not the overzealous moderator opinions.
These subs don't like any opinion that goes against the grain. In their desire to create a safe space, they create a space that not only isn't safe, but hostile to a lot of people. If you dont toe their line, you get the ban. And that's why they banned me here too. I dared criticize the religion of woke.
Anyway, that's why I decided to post this on here. Because I feel like this behavior deserves some calling out. It's not helpful, it's actually immensely harmful. As someone who isn't an incel, wanna know why i didn't become one? Because i have an education and an internal moral compass to know that that stuff is wrong. But if there's anything i've observed about humanity in the past decade or so, it's that most people aren't that smart, they aren't that independent, they aren't that willing to go against the grain. They wanna belong. They want emotional support. They want to be with people who are somewhat like minded. They want to be comfortable in their own skin. Woke mentalities don't do that. Despite their claims to want to facilitate safe spaces, they are fiercely tribalistic and hostile to anyone who dares express any views that dont fit neatly in their worldview. And as we can see here, they can't stand the mirror being held up to their hypocrisy.Maybe these groups help some people, but they do so at the expense of others, and create intense tribalism in our societies based on identity group. And sadly, being an autistic white male is an identity group, and if they don't fit within the realm of the "woke", they might find that belonging among the "anti woke."
Which brings me back to my points. If you're woke, what are you putting out there that might drive people to another opposing group? Are you actually offering these guys any answers? Or are you just telling them they are the problem for feeling as they do and expressing it as they do? I'm not saying we should facilitate every mentality they have. Quite frankly, i think it's realistic to say, no people don't deserve affection from someone specific. I mean, they do need to get over their failures, eventually.
But let's not forget how PAINFUL this can be to a lot of guys. And that sometimes, lecturing attitudes telling people they're wrong in a self righteous and self serving way isn't helpful. So guys struggling out there, I feel you. I probably am one of you to some degree. But you don't need to go down the path of the anti woke to do it.
Heck, let me tell you what you should do, as someone who myself is like this. Just...be yourself. Be true to yourself. be true to who you are. Dont join anyone else's group. Make your own group. That's what I do. I always say it, I'm politically homeless. I'm too left for some lefties, too right for some other lefties, im in this weird free for all against everyone sometimes. Same goes with the woke/anti woke stuff. I'm my own third force of enlightened centrism in between. I don't hate women. I respect their autonomy. They're people too. Blah blah blah. Being an incel actually isn't helpful. Maybe it will make you feel good, but just think about how much hate you're putting out in the world with that. And is that helping anything? No. If you are a mgtow like the friend i mentioned above, well, feel free to not associate with women, but i think hating them and having sexist attitudes kind of makes you a jerk. Women are people, don't hate on them. Although dunking on self righteous SJWs is fair game IMO.
Anyway, I posted this mostly to call out that sub for their woke censorship BS, but also because I feel like I have a lot to say on this issue, as an autistic male who has struggled with dating. That's why I went so deep into my own personal stuff, to set an example. There are answers out there, you don't need to go down the path of hating all women and becoming a sexist moron because some girl rejected you. Individual women can be pieces of crap, but "all women"? No. Anyway, just keep being you, and hang in there, it does get better eventually.
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