Okay, I decided it was time to address the concept of feminism
head on. This came after being accused of being a regressive sexist in
response to my previous article in a debate. I find it difficult to
discuss feminism because it’s such a contentious topic, and it’s hard to
really discuss it without pissing someone off. In my case, I end up
pissing both the hardcore feminists, and the regressive anti feminists
in discussing my views. Because, screw nuance, right? That being said, I
just felt it was useful to clarify my views on feminism.
Am I for equal rights?
Yes. Very much. I want to clarify one thing very early on. I am for the empowerment of women. I want men and women to be equal, and I want everyone to have the same opportunities and obligations. I reject the traditional division of labor. I reject traditional gender roles. I am for female empowerment, and believe we should move toward equality between the sexes. That being said, I would classify myself as a feminist.
What is feminism to me?
There are many types and strands of feminism out there, but I would say feminism is a sociological lens based on conflict theory, the theory that studies power relations in society. I believe that it is useful to use this lens, with focus on gender roles, to identify and solve problems related to inequality between the sexes. It is very useful, and very necessary to accomplish our goals. I believe privilege exists, and is more or less defined as the structural biases and cultural expectations in society that tend to favor men over women. There are inequalities. There are inequalities in the division of labor. There are inequalities in social expectations in behavior between men and women. Yes, there are inequalities in school and the work place and family life. Men do, on the whole, have it a little easier than women, although individual experiences may vary. And yes, we should strive toward fixing these inequalities.
Huh, that’s reasonable, so why do you run into problems with feminists?
Feminism is not a single coherent entity. There are many versions of feminism, and many of them have different emphases, goals, and worldviews, and not all of these tend to even get along with one another. I find some feminists are quite extreme, and this extremism can often become quite toxic and offputting to people. To define toxic/extreme feminism, I would ascribe the following qualities.
1) Takes things to extremes. Extreme feminists are, well, extreme. They take the sociological lens above and run with it. While it is a useful lens, a drawback of using one lens to the exclusion of others is that it tends to cause you to isolate yourself in your own worldview, where you are incapable of understanding that people may think differently outside of their perspective. It’s good to use feminist theory to look at the structural inequalities and strive for equality, but there comes a point where you just see sexism in everything. It becomes a form of confirmation bias. Using the feminist lens to view the world is nice, but please, for crying out loud, try to look at things another way once in a while. Becoming so attached to one way to see the world to the exclusive of others is totally unhealthy and leads to myopia.
2) Black and white mindset. A lot of extreme/toxic feminists have a “with us or against us” attitude. Either you see the world the same way they do, or you’re an evil sexist pig. There is no middle ground, there is no shades of grey. There is no nuance.
3) They silence dissent. In addition to having a rigid attitude, they actively attack and attempt to discredit everyone who disagrees with them. This is where I really rub up against problems with them in discussing this election. In discussing Hillary Clinton, everyone who doesn’t like her is sexist, they’re all evil, and they’ll accuse all critics of being sexist merely for disagreeing with her. Again, either you’re on their side or you’re an evil sexist pig, there is no middle ground, no nuance. They’ll attack you and slander your character and derail the debate if you disagree. I find this particularly troublesome because my own application of conflict theory with an emphasis on class sees this as a distraction from the real issues with the purpose to silence dissent.
4) They see so much sexism in everything they are some of the most blatantly sexist people out there. Feminism is supposed to be about equality, yet these guys blatantly favor women over men! We see this a lot in 2016, with Hillary being a woman being the #1 reason to vote for her, economics, foreign policy, or any important social issue be darned.
These are at least some of the symptoms of extreme toxic feminism. Let me be frank. I like the concept of feminism, I’ve integrated feminism into my worldview, but these particular strains of feminism, bleh, toxic. These people have black and white perspectives, see sexism in everything, are essentially sexist/discriminatory themselves, and silence all dissent. These guys do so much harm to the actual feminist movement that they are in short why so many anti feminist movements exist even today. A lot of alt right types are opposed to feminism, because they think all feminism is represented by these nuts, and as such, they adopt the opposite extreme, which is just as harmful. In reality, feminism is, honestly, just about trying to advocate for and move toward gender and sex equality. This shouldn’t be controversial and ground breaking, but it is, in part because of these extremists.
Speaking of the alt right, what’s your opinion of the them, the red pill, men’s rights, MGTOW, etc?
I don’t like most of these guys either. While occasionally they’ll raise good issues like why do laws regarding divorce, child support etc. put men in bad positions (legitimate question), they are, ultimately, just as toxic as the extreme feminists. Here’s the thing. Legitimate, good feminism will address the concerns MRAs and the like bring up. They will question the double standard for abuse and rape victims. They will look at the unfairness of issues like entrapment, alimony, child support, etc. Feminism is really just about using sociology to identify inequalities and attempt to rectify them in my opinion, that’s all, and the lens can equally be applied to structures that favor women as structures that favor men.
However, going back to the MRA types, etc., they’re just as toxic as the extreme feminists. They generalize women the way extreme feminists generalize men. Just replace “all men are pigs” with “all women are evil succubi who want to steal my money and manipulate me”. They often become regressive, supporting traditional gender roles. Some of them will advocate for raping, abusing and treating women like crap (although motivations and perceptions between groups vary). Toxic, toxic, toxic. I am completely opposed to these guys.
So…you’re basically a moderate feminist with common sense?
Yep. I’m for feminism, I’m for equality, but I reject the extremism on both sides. I think the extreme feminists and the extreme anti feminists are two sides of the same coin. Two groups of people with a vitriolic hatred of any group toward the other, and really, anything in between. I would draw the same dichotomy between the two as I would with anarcho capitalists vs communists, whereas I’m a progressive liberal. Basically, two extreme groups that totally strawman each other and miss the point and have totally unrealistic ideas that are out of touch with reality, whereas here I am somewhere in the middle trying to be reasonable. Screw me, right?
Conclusion
Honestly, I really hate wading into this topic. I feel like it’s like strolling through a minefield. There are so many tensions and extreme opinions on both sides, it’s sickening. Look, I like feminism. I really do. But there are so many toxic elements to the concept, and I’m really running into them with this 2016 election. This black or white, all or nothing, sexism exists in everything, and everyone who disagrees with me is an evil sexist who must be silenced mentality needs to stop. Yes, there are problems in this world that need to be fixed. There are legitimate concerns in fixing inequalities between men and women, and I support that. However, that does not mean we should have a rigid, all or nothing black and white attitude that silences dissent and divides people who actually have similar goals, at least on paper: equality. Sometimes feminists sound like the alt right types they hate. And to the alt right types, sometimes you’re just as bad as the extreme feminists with your anti feminism. The fact is, everyone needs to take a chill pill and look at these issues more objectively. Feminism is a useful lens, but it can be overdone, but that doesn’t mean the vocal plurality of people who overdo it represent the entire movement. Honestly, I just want equality. And that should be what we all want. If you want equality, we’re on the same side, even if we have different ways of getting there.
Am I for equal rights?
Yes. Very much. I want to clarify one thing very early on. I am for the empowerment of women. I want men and women to be equal, and I want everyone to have the same opportunities and obligations. I reject the traditional division of labor. I reject traditional gender roles. I am for female empowerment, and believe we should move toward equality between the sexes. That being said, I would classify myself as a feminist.
What is feminism to me?
There are many types and strands of feminism out there, but I would say feminism is a sociological lens based on conflict theory, the theory that studies power relations in society. I believe that it is useful to use this lens, with focus on gender roles, to identify and solve problems related to inequality between the sexes. It is very useful, and very necessary to accomplish our goals. I believe privilege exists, and is more or less defined as the structural biases and cultural expectations in society that tend to favor men over women. There are inequalities. There are inequalities in the division of labor. There are inequalities in social expectations in behavior between men and women. Yes, there are inequalities in school and the work place and family life. Men do, on the whole, have it a little easier than women, although individual experiences may vary. And yes, we should strive toward fixing these inequalities.
Huh, that’s reasonable, so why do you run into problems with feminists?
Feminism is not a single coherent entity. There are many versions of feminism, and many of them have different emphases, goals, and worldviews, and not all of these tend to even get along with one another. I find some feminists are quite extreme, and this extremism can often become quite toxic and offputting to people. To define toxic/extreme feminism, I would ascribe the following qualities.
1) Takes things to extremes. Extreme feminists are, well, extreme. They take the sociological lens above and run with it. While it is a useful lens, a drawback of using one lens to the exclusion of others is that it tends to cause you to isolate yourself in your own worldview, where you are incapable of understanding that people may think differently outside of their perspective. It’s good to use feminist theory to look at the structural inequalities and strive for equality, but there comes a point where you just see sexism in everything. It becomes a form of confirmation bias. Using the feminist lens to view the world is nice, but please, for crying out loud, try to look at things another way once in a while. Becoming so attached to one way to see the world to the exclusive of others is totally unhealthy and leads to myopia.
2) Black and white mindset. A lot of extreme/toxic feminists have a “with us or against us” attitude. Either you see the world the same way they do, or you’re an evil sexist pig. There is no middle ground, there is no shades of grey. There is no nuance.
3) They silence dissent. In addition to having a rigid attitude, they actively attack and attempt to discredit everyone who disagrees with them. This is where I really rub up against problems with them in discussing this election. In discussing Hillary Clinton, everyone who doesn’t like her is sexist, they’re all evil, and they’ll accuse all critics of being sexist merely for disagreeing with her. Again, either you’re on their side or you’re an evil sexist pig, there is no middle ground, no nuance. They’ll attack you and slander your character and derail the debate if you disagree. I find this particularly troublesome because my own application of conflict theory with an emphasis on class sees this as a distraction from the real issues with the purpose to silence dissent.
4) They see so much sexism in everything they are some of the most blatantly sexist people out there. Feminism is supposed to be about equality, yet these guys blatantly favor women over men! We see this a lot in 2016, with Hillary being a woman being the #1 reason to vote for her, economics, foreign policy, or any important social issue be darned.
These are at least some of the symptoms of extreme toxic feminism. Let me be frank. I like the concept of feminism, I’ve integrated feminism into my worldview, but these particular strains of feminism, bleh, toxic. These people have black and white perspectives, see sexism in everything, are essentially sexist/discriminatory themselves, and silence all dissent. These guys do so much harm to the actual feminist movement that they are in short why so many anti feminist movements exist even today. A lot of alt right types are opposed to feminism, because they think all feminism is represented by these nuts, and as such, they adopt the opposite extreme, which is just as harmful. In reality, feminism is, honestly, just about trying to advocate for and move toward gender and sex equality. This shouldn’t be controversial and ground breaking, but it is, in part because of these extremists.
Speaking of the alt right, what’s your opinion of the them, the red pill, men’s rights, MGTOW, etc?
I don’t like most of these guys either. While occasionally they’ll raise good issues like why do laws regarding divorce, child support etc. put men in bad positions (legitimate question), they are, ultimately, just as toxic as the extreme feminists. Here’s the thing. Legitimate, good feminism will address the concerns MRAs and the like bring up. They will question the double standard for abuse and rape victims. They will look at the unfairness of issues like entrapment, alimony, child support, etc. Feminism is really just about using sociology to identify inequalities and attempt to rectify them in my opinion, that’s all, and the lens can equally be applied to structures that favor women as structures that favor men.
However, going back to the MRA types, etc., they’re just as toxic as the extreme feminists. They generalize women the way extreme feminists generalize men. Just replace “all men are pigs” with “all women are evil succubi who want to steal my money and manipulate me”. They often become regressive, supporting traditional gender roles. Some of them will advocate for raping, abusing and treating women like crap (although motivations and perceptions between groups vary). Toxic, toxic, toxic. I am completely opposed to these guys.
So…you’re basically a moderate feminist with common sense?
Yep. I’m for feminism, I’m for equality, but I reject the extremism on both sides. I think the extreme feminists and the extreme anti feminists are two sides of the same coin. Two groups of people with a vitriolic hatred of any group toward the other, and really, anything in between. I would draw the same dichotomy between the two as I would with anarcho capitalists vs communists, whereas I’m a progressive liberal. Basically, two extreme groups that totally strawman each other and miss the point and have totally unrealistic ideas that are out of touch with reality, whereas here I am somewhere in the middle trying to be reasonable. Screw me, right?
Conclusion
Honestly, I really hate wading into this topic. I feel like it’s like strolling through a minefield. There are so many tensions and extreme opinions on both sides, it’s sickening. Look, I like feminism. I really do. But there are so many toxic elements to the concept, and I’m really running into them with this 2016 election. This black or white, all or nothing, sexism exists in everything, and everyone who disagrees with me is an evil sexist who must be silenced mentality needs to stop. Yes, there are problems in this world that need to be fixed. There are legitimate concerns in fixing inequalities between men and women, and I support that. However, that does not mean we should have a rigid, all or nothing black and white attitude that silences dissent and divides people who actually have similar goals, at least on paper: equality. Sometimes feminists sound like the alt right types they hate. And to the alt right types, sometimes you’re just as bad as the extreme feminists with your anti feminism. The fact is, everyone needs to take a chill pill and look at these issues more objectively. Feminism is a useful lens, but it can be overdone, but that doesn’t mean the vocal plurality of people who overdo it represent the entire movement. Honestly, I just want equality. And that should be what we all want. If you want equality, we’re on the same side, even if we have different ways of getting there.
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