How to avoid being part of the problem, a discussion of crab mentality and other mindsets that hold us back

 So, I had a discussion on UBI lately, and a big centerpoint of it is how a lot of opposition ends up falling in negative mindsets and their opposition to UBI comes down to morality. I mostly discuss UBI in terms of practical concerns, because I believe the actual obstacles to overcome are the "how?" I mean, I believe there are legitimate pragmatic concerns about the idea like "what if no one works?" and "how are we gonna pay for it?" But it seems like most of the biggest concerns are moral.

The primary moral argument against UBI has to do with the concept of some level of needing to "earn" a living, and some level of bitterness regarding having to work in the first place. I get this to some extent, as an ex conservative. it doesn't seem fair, that you have to work your butts off where someone else can just get something for free, right? Like you have to work, why cant they just go out and EARN a living? I believe that this mentality is a prime reason why most of the old ideologies are so pro work. It's not about needing everyone to work, it's about "spreading the misery".

But I say, if the purpose is to spread misery, then that's just a guarantee that everyone is miserable. Imagine if we never had any progress ever, because it would be unfair to those who suffered. it's unfair a COVID vaccine now exists, my uncle died of covid. Why does everyone get to live now but my family member died? That's what you sound like, but this mentality seems to be an opposition to UBI, as well as a lot of other ideas. Student debt forgiveness is a big one. I had to pay off my loans, why do others get forgiveness?

I mean, I think it's important to realize that this mentality solves nothing. it doesnt make the world better, it just makes it stay crappy. It's the mentality is cutting off everyone's arms to make the amputee feel better. If one has to suffer, everyone does. All this does is ensure that everyone suffers.

We will never ever make progress with these attitudes. if we ever want to see a better world where people dont have to suffer, we will never see it. Because peoples' regressive ideas of how "the real world works" and how everyone has to suffer just...ensures that everyone suffers.

There's a term for this, it's called "crab mentality." It's the idea of crabs in a bucket, each crab could easily climb out of a bucket, but any time one tries, the others drag them back down. As a result, none can escape, and all are stuck in the bucket. That's all that this accomplishes.

Still, someone has to do the work, why do they have to, when others don't?

Well, in a world where we need some to work, but others don't, there are a few ways to address this. One answer could be to have everyone work less. If we only need say, 60% of people currently working working, then we could simply cut the work week down to 24 and have everyone working 24 hours a week instead of 40. This could solve the "spread the misery" concept by reducing misery but spreading it equitably.

I however, have another idea. I believe people have varying desire to work. Some people actually LOVE work, or at least claim they do, but others...don't. So why not just give everyone what they want? If a UBI is a right of all citizens, and you get it whether you work or not, then that means you technically get it if you work. Everyone has the same choice to work under capitalism, same as now, it's just that UBI makes the freedom capitalism alleges be actionable. If person A works voluntarily, and person B doesn't, and both had the same choices, why should one resent the other? 

Yet this seems to be what happens. You often get the workers resenting those who dont work even if they could choose the same as a nonworker. And from there, it often devolves into some morality associated with productivity. That working means you EARNED money, but not working means you get it unjustly. 

But...all a society in which one hs to work to earn a living does...is ensure everyone has to work for a living. And it just keeps us all working. Youre free to continue to live this way, but once again, it seems....regressive. These attitudes arent helpful.

This is why I spend so much time discussing how work exists for people, not the other way around. The end is the people the work is the means, and the functionalist reason behind linking work to income....is to encourage and incentivize work. There's no inherent objective morality here. It's all a social system we created and could change at any time. But it seems a lot of people are stuck in this rigid morality that one needs to work to "earn" a living. 

People might say they resent giving their hard earned money to others. I can kinda understand that. But this is where enlightened self interest comes in. Do the math. Your median income earner earns $46000 a year. That amounts to around $70000 for a family/household. A UBI plan that taxes at 20% to pay out a benefit of $15000 would not effectively tax anyone up to $75000 a year. For a family, given multiple adults and kids, this number could easily exceed $150,000 a year. For individual income earners, this is the 73rd percentile. For families, it varies, but I'd just round and say 80% would benefit from these ideas.

So the vast majority of workers would benefit from a UBI driven redistribution. So why oppose it? because "morality"? I'd encourage you to rethink your morals. 

And if you are in the top =<27% of people who wouldnt benefit from UBI...well I dont blme you for not being in favor of UBI, but...let's face it, you're a minority. The rest of us, outnumber you, and if people wake up and realize that then we could pass a plan. You might lose out, but keep in mind, you're relatively affluent, and even if my plan was reality, you'd still be very well off, you would still be the winners of the economy, you just wouldn't get the same massive amounts of wealth that are effectively many times the normal person's living standard. Someone's $500k might turn to $415k. Someone's $250k might turn into $215k. Is that really the end of the world? Go on vacation less, buy fewer RTX 4090s, maybe dont live somewhere where you need to pay $10k+ a month on a mortage. Keep in mind, we got people making do on as low as $15k working full time, the same as my UBI. My plan would raise low wage workers up, and even mildly help middle income ones. 

Honestly? I think UBI just flat out makes sense. And once we realize a lot of these old conservative attitudes are actually just holding society back, the sooner we can fix the issues with the economy.

You can continue to base your perspective on resentment of others, or arbitrary morality, just know that in doing so you hold society back and condemn a lot of people to unnecessary suffering. If you're okay with that so be it, but I'm just letting you know these problems are artificial and can easily be solved. And it seems hypocritical to lecture me about morality (since a lot of critics of UBI think my perspectives on property and work are flat out "IMMORAL") when your morality doesnt seem to be based around alleviating suffering.

Heck, I have to ask, if the purpose of morality isnt to alleviate suffering what is the point? Really, I know there are other bases of morality, like "god"/divine command theory, weird theories of suffering build character, blah blah blah, but that nonsense just doesnt connect to me. The purpose of morality should be to alleviate suffering first and foremost, and i consider a system that doesn't do that immoral. As such, I consider a lot of these old and antiquated mindsets designed around maintaining a system of work to be immoral, given work is an activity that inherently seems to be negative in my opinion (especially when taken involuntarily) and should be reduced, the same way we'd try to alleviate other forms of suffering like pain, disease, etc. As such, a morality based around "spreading the misery" comes off to be as flat out immoral, and I really struggle to take seriously any other formulation of morality than this. Like even if there are other ways to get there, any morality that at its core doesnt try to alleviate suffering just seems...evil to me. And once we realize that suffering should be eliminated, it just doesnt make sense to try to pursue maximizing employment and spreading misery as widely as it can go.