So...more stuff came out about Graham Platner lately. Apparently sexted people who werent his wife or something and of course, the progressive derangement syndrome is coming out again.
And yeah, I do wanna point out: THIS IS PROGRESSIVE DERANGEMENT SYNDROME. You got these centrists who have this crazy, irrational hatred toward progressives like Graham Platner and Abdul El Sayed, and who are taking every minor thing and making a mole hill out of it. OMG EL SAYED APPEARED WITH DOG ABUSER/LEFT WING RADICAL HASAN PIKER AT A RALLY! And then basically you watch an El Sayed rally and it's clear these guys just wanna make peoples' lives better and the middle are taking seemingly irrelevant issues and blowing them up. Why are they doing this? Because they wanna tank these candidates and get the median voter to support some uninspiring centrist instead. It's the same with Platner.
Now, Platner IS a colorful fellow, and he isnt above criticism. But we discussed his nazi tattoo. The dude ain't actually a nazi so I don't care. He was a reddit communist on r/antiwork in 2020, which....should appeal to me, but keep in mind i got banned from that sub for arguing with said reddit communists who place their hatred of capitalism above hatred of work. And Im not big on communism. But, the guy has distanced himself from that, and is running mostly as a democratic socialist type akin to other progressive left candidates. Since then the controversies are getting more pathetic. It's stuff like him using the R slur in like 2010, or him cheating on his wife, or him pleasuring himself in some shady marine corps porta potty in like 2005 or some crap. It's like...who cares? This dude is still way better than the other candidates, and if you'd abandon Platner over these nothingburgers to vote for Susan Collins, that says more about you and your politics and morality than it does about mine.
The reason, I support progressives is this: I want change. I dont like the current right wing status quo as it exists, and I want people who break the mold, flip the script, and shift the overton window left of where it is to accomplish changes that make my life better. I admit, Platner might be...ahem...TOO far left if he still holds reddit communist views, but he aint coming off that way in his campaigning. He's running on a more acceptable socdem platform, not some weird niche reddit communist crap, so let's hold him to that. Hasan Piker is also too far left for me, but I often find myself agreeing with him more than liberal counterparts as well.
And honestly, what are these scandals supposed to signal to us? How does Platner cheating on his wife impact me as a constituent? Is the message "if he cheats on his wife, he will cheat on America?" Okay, so what does that mean in practice? is he gonna sell out to corporate PACs? I got news for you, in that regard, I still trust Platner more than I trust Mills or Collins. Like that's the thing. The people cheating on us, the American people, are the same people putting out ads bashing progressives like Platner and El Sayed. They're the ones who can be bought. They oppose those candidates because they CAN'T. They CAN'T be controlled by corporate interests, and that's why those interests are so invested in tanking their campaigns. It's why McMorrow, herself not a bad candidate on paper, went so hard with the negative attacks on El Sayed. And what did THAT do? It spoiled me on McMorrow and made me want to support El Sayed. Because if she's putting out those kinds of attacks, can I trust her? I mean, this was the same playbook centrists always use, and I hate those guys for a reason, because they're anti progress.
Same with this. Am I supposed to look at this and suddenly be like "gee, Janet Mills is looking like a good candidate about now"? Becuase Im not doing that. Id still find Platner as a senator more appetizing than I would some milquetoast centrist who I know isnt gonna do anything and who I know can't win. Or Collins for that matter. Why would I vote for ANY republican? Even though collins is a moderate, she still votes with Trump a lot more than she doesn't. Even if she breaks with him on some key issues showing she has SOMEWHAT of a conscience, doesn't mean I like her, or that I'd support her over Platner. Why should I give up supporting a candidate I agree with 80% of the time, for someone who I agree with maybe 20% of the time?
Of course, this is what got me nailed by some neocon type as being "like a Trump supporter." Ie, they support their guy no matter what, no matter how bad he is. Well, not really. And I wanna use my past conservative self as an example.
If I were a conservative in the Trump years...
So....when I was a conservative, when I was a teen, yeah, I basically was a full blown Reaganite, agree with republicans like 96% of the time, whatever. But I was mostly too young to vote in that phase, and when I could vote starting in the 2006 mid terms...I voted split ticket. I'd vote republican by default, but I also voted for quite a few dems. I honestly was in a position where I didnt feel the republicans were in a good position under Bush, and I thought split government would do Bush some good. I ended up regretting that as the house dems were very obstructive of Bush in ways I didn't like at the time, but I still voted for McCain in 2008, even though i didnt really like him. I thought the republicans were in a bad place. I didnt like the war in Iraq and thought it was a mistake. i didnt like the national debt increases to pay for said war. I wanted Ron paul in 2008, and considered crossing over for Clinton, but not Obama. I considered voting for Bob Barr, the libertarian candidate at the time. The fact is, I didnt like McCain OR Obama, and I temporarily found my home in the tea party, before realizing I no longer aligned with conservatism at all.
But let's say I didn't align with the democrats and I still had conservative views in the modern era. How would I view Trump? Not well at all. Sure, a lot of the relatively minor scandals, I wouldnt care about, same with Platner. I wouldnt care about, say, Trump cheating on his wives. Or him being a bit vulgar once in a while. But you know what? There would be SEVERAL support breaking problems with him:
1) His authoritarianism- He clearly wants to act like a dictator. Putting people who disagree with him on lists. Deporting people for being outspoken on Israel. Hell, his deportation policy in general would be too extreme for me. Again, he's doing nazi type crap with that one. He's putting people in concentration camps, holding them without due process. You think I, a formerly Ron Paul style libertarian, would sign off on that? No, I'd be more aligned with the likes of Thomas Massie on that one.
2) January 6th- You incite an insurrection, you're done. Period. This isn't a partisan issue. I mean, again, it's basic constitutionalism. I was a bit of a constitutionalist back in the day. The constitution was designed to constrain would be autocrats. I would support checks and balances against him. Heck, based on how I voted in 2006, I'd be inclined to support moderate democrats to control Trump, since the republican party sure as heck ain't doing the job.
3) The Iran War- Let's face it, his foreign policy is a disaster. he's destroying our international alliances, the greenland thing was just...no. Bullying other countries is just...no. And then he goes into Iran on some faked up pretext that was flimsier than Bush's in 2003, and we're supposed to just go along with it? Let's face it, he distracted from the Epstein files. It's blatantly obvious.
4) The epstein files- I mean, okay, you do weird crap with consenting adults, but with kids? No. Just no. I'd be in with the massie/MTG types on this one.
5) The economy- Look, I dont normally blame presidents for the state of the economy. I remember when prices went up around 2005ish under Bush and I was like "what, do you expect the president to control the gas prices?" But invading Iran was an unforced error driving prices higher than they've ever been and his tariff policy is disastrous. Quite frankly, Reagan always opposed tariffs and Trump's interventionist policies are clearly contributing to inflation. All of this are unforced errors. Trump screwed up. And honestly, we should oppose him.
With that said, I'd be inclined to be anti Trump even if I were a republican. Maybe I'd find Susan Collins palatable in such an environment, she would be up my alley at the time, actually. I probably would support Collins over Platner with those convictions in maine. But if my choice was Trump vs a moderate democrat, say, a Hillary Clinton type...eh I'd probably break Clinton just to get Trump out. Id probably find Harris or even Biden acceptable. Not because I like them, but I can tolerate them...to get Trump out.
Back to Platner
What would it take for me to vote for a Collins type over Platner? Well, my beliefs on the left are a bit more extreme than my views were on the right, outside of my early pre voting years. Given I can barely tolerate a Mills type from the left, a Collins type aint gonna work for me. But yeah, he'd have to be pretty bad. Like run on a literal communist platform. Let's imagine that. Let's imagine Platner was actually as extreme as Trump. Based on the above:
1) he would be flirting with implementing literal communism in the US. He would be adding anyone who doesnt agree with him to an enemies list. he'd be illegally detaining people who criticize him or show any signs of right wing thought, especially immigrants.
2) He's refuse to accept election results and incite riots in response to losing.
3) He would support interventions overseas to spread communism.
4) He'd diddle kids
5) His policies would destroy the economy, leading to high prices and supply shortages.
Now...is platner gonna do ANY of that. IS he that extreme? no. Hell no. If Platner WAS LITERALLY a left wing Trump, would I vote for him? Also hell no. I would tolerate Susan Collins in such a situation. Just to get Platner out. But we would need to talk him being that extreme. Not even getting into his massive corruption, the ball room crap, yeah, if we had this dude act like a wannabe Stalin, yeah, i WOULD vote for Collins. But that's what you'd need to make an analogue to Trump that works. Given Platner is still within the realm of normal scandals and normal politics, I see no reason to drop platner for a moderate candidate who represents my values in objectively worse ways. Sorry, not sorry. Platner being elected isnt gonna cause a massive constitutional crisis like Trump's presidency currently is. Hes not gonna be a tyrant. He's not gonna destroy the constitution. He's not gonna create artificial disasters based on his policies.
And given the nature of the subreddit I had this convo on, I know they dont wanna hear this, but yeah, Trump literally IS that bad. He IS acting like a full on fascist. He IS a threat to our national security and constitutional rights, and he is making tons of unforced errors that are destroying the country and international order as it exists. You cant even remotely compare Platner to that. If he goes full reddit communist mode, well, we can have this discussion. But he would need to go full communist to make the comparison even remotely FAIR. That's how bad of a situation we're in with Trump.
How would Platner's scandals even affect governance anyway?
So I actually pressed the guy on this, and didn't get convincing answers. Basically, they gave me three assertions, none of which I agree with.
1) No one wants to work with someone with a nazi tattoo
I hate this idea that we should elect people because other want to work with them. it's this weird centrist hugbox thing. like we should elect people who work with other members of congress pushing compromise, incrementalism, what have you. No, I want someone who has different ideals. And I admit, maybe others in congress dont wanna work with them. But does that mean I should change my ideals? No, I wanna elect who I wanna elect, and if others wont work with him to accomplish goals, that's their problem, not my guy's problem. I also doubt the tattoo is that disqualifying. What is potentially is the fact that centrists hate the guy and might wanna isolate him to ensure they cant get crap done, ya know, like Bernie in the senate for 40 years, but ultimately, I want more bernies and less smarmy centrists.
2) It's hard to replace Susan Collins' experience
I dont give AF about experience. I mean, more experienced candidates arent necessarily better. More experienced candidates might have more institutional knowledge, but if I vote the current institutionalists as corrupt and not serving my interests, I want them out. There's been talk in recent years of wanting to get rid of all these old people in congress who have been there for decades with term limits. Given Susan Collins has been in office for literally 30 years, yeah, it's time for her to go. I dont care about her institutional knowledge, especially since she doesnt ideologically agree with me anyway.
3) She knows how to bring money into Maine
HOW?! What is she doing here? I can only think of two responses (I didnt get one from this user), either a job creation narrative, which, given my ideology aint gonna go over with me. Or she's for pork barrel projects, which I'm fine giving up to accomplish my actual goals. Either way, I see it as nonsense job creation schemes, either from trickle down economics or pork, and...yeah. I'd give that up to get universal healthcare, or a UBI. Like, i don't care. That's the thing. This isnt attractive to me. And I even pointed it out after they said I made assumptions, I pointed out that their idea of what I should want is themselves ideological. Yeah, if I wanted a steady hand who was sociable with others of a similar ideology who knew how to give a tax cut to jeff bezos to "create jobs" in my state or something, sure, susan collins would be my candidate. But you know what? None of that is attractive to me. Maybe that's what ideological moderates on the fence between centrist dems and centrist republicans want, but I DONT want that. You see where I'm coming from?
So yeah....once again, why should I see Platner's scandals as deal breaking? You see why I'd care more about ideology and policy than this, right? Because I ain't being sold on Collins here. I dont share centrists' values on what I want from a candidate.
And I'll be blunt. If their candidate had a scandal, they'd still support them over a Platner type. Because the real reasons these centrists hate El Sayed and Platner is because they dont ideologically agree with them. They want some ho hum centrist type who wont rock the boat and who will use their sociability and institutional knowledge to pursue mainstream goals that dont do much for the state. But I dont want that. I want progressive change agents. Not necessarily communists, again, if you had someone try to be a left wing equivalent to Trump, you'd get a Stalinist type. But again...Platner isn't that. So...I ain't seeing the problem here.
The fact is, centrists, your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer. We dont have ideologically similar goals, even if we might find common ground in removing some common enemies like the Trump regime. Stop trying to talk to me like I care about your stuff and your values, because I don't. If I have to hold my nose for some centrist to get republicans out, fine, I'll do that this time. But that doesnt mean I LIKE your crappy warmed over candidates who dont stand for anything. They're about as appealing as unseasoned chicken....that's been left in the fridge for 3 days. Yeah...
Anyway, you guys always tell us to vote blue no matter who, if you cant do that when the shoe is on the other foot, you lost all moral claim to push me toward doing so in future elections. You're on your own.
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