So why do people like RFK Jr?

 So, I really don't get this guy. This guy is...a joke. He seems to be centrist, he seems to be focusing extensively on anti vax nonsense. But then I see in progressive circles people pushing him like this progressive champion who is better than Biden and I'm like why? I don't get it. So you know what? I asked people on a forum I'm on to make the case for him. And the topic really blew up and is currently sitting at like 500 responses, including comment chains and stuff. And I would like to actually present and react to the ideas I've gotten in my own words. For the record, I don't agree with most of these views, but I do want to present the overall themes and best comments I got on the subject, so I'm going to be cherrypicking some of the best comments and reacting to them. 

He appeals to a certain residue of the Anti-Imperialist Left. They just want him to get on stage and yell “The C.I.A killed my dad and uncle!” Everything else is kind of secondary.

 *sigh*, that makes sense. To be honest, on the forum I'm on, there's a a lot of "anti war" weirdos. And a lot of them have very strange ideas. We shouldnt help the Ukrainians because russia is only defending against NATO expansionism, blah blah blah. America bad. And it seems to be THE issue they ride or die on. They are OBSESSED with ending the wars. It's the same energy that seemed to propel Tulsi as a top option among some progressives despite how even in 2020 she was a meh candidate at best, and since then I've really lost any support for her. 

As with Williamson, I imagine the majority of his "supporters" are primarily anti-Biden rather than pro-Kennedy.

 Eh, this seems to be a trend I notice, except that at least with Williamson you can at least be in support of progressive policy. The pro kennedy vote seems to be knee jerk and based on opposing biden rather than about any sensible and sane policy of his.

I'm giving the 20%ers the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that maybe they see he's a Kennedy and don't know much about him yet - otherwise, I really don't know.

 Yeah, and I don't really "get" the Kennedy thing. When I think kennedy i think of this really old and out of touch rich family from massachusetts who was relevant in politics like 60 years ago, and even then wasn't that great. Kennedy seemed to have the obama effect. People loved him because he gave nice speeches, but he wasn't really that good on policy. Like name one good thing you like about the kennedy era. Because when I think kennedy, I think of him banging Marilyn Monroe and almost getting us into nuclear war. 

But something something he died because of the deep state or something.

  I like how nobody has laid out specific policies that RFK has championed or co-signed and keep on saying he’s “anti-war” and sued big corporations at some points in his life. Neither answer the question. What will he do when the next big pandemic hits America? Because at the rate global warming is progressing we will definitely get something worse than COVID within our lifetime.

 I mean to be fair Im going by the most upvoted comments, but I noticed this. While I'll be citing some of the more specific comments further down, yeah, a lot of people didnt give me a straight answer, and the ones who did didn't seem to have their ducks in a row to be frank. 

If you listen to these and still have questions, lmk. Is anyone else talking about the cia overthrowing governments abroad and that having bad effects? Or the railroad industry regulating itself effectively, lobbying successfully for such lax regulations as would lead to the east palestine disaster? Is anyone else calling out the swamp, but who has the actual technical know how (due to litigating against corrupt agencies for decades) to change agency function (I say the swamp, because rfk specifically called out trump for saying he’d drain the swamp, and then getting rolled entirely)? Is anyone else talking about the top food and safety people, in some cases, being literally on the payroll of Monsanto?

He’s the anti revolving door agency capture guy. The entirety of his announcement speech was focused primarily on the merger of state and corporate power.

That’s his thing.

Three suggested listens:

3/5 Hillsdale https://freedomlibrary.hillsdale.edu/programs/cca-iv-big-pharma/anthony-fauci-and-the-public-health-establishment

4/19 Announcement https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EsuLBPjdt-w

4/29 cnn interview https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YL5w9g0ReQI&pp=ygUHUmZrIGNubg%3D%3D

Side note I got into it, on another thread in this sub about rfk. If people ask me respectful questions I can answer. But I’m not trying to get into a skirmish, where everything I say my intentions are doubted. If you feel called to ask me if I’m a flat earther, or to link to articles alleging rfk said something without including full context or review of what he said, probably don’t. If you’re mainly interested in vaccines, go to debatevaccines sub or something. Rfk platform is not anti vax

 To be fair this is probably THE best actual pro kennedy take I got. I'm not swayed by this comment, but yeah. Let's break it down. CIA and weirdo leftist foreign policy concerns? CHeck. A lot of positive rhetoric and stuff like "he's the guy who knows how to reign in corruption" without actually explaining how he would do these things? Like it just seems to be like really vapid populism at work. As opposed to the genuine populism of bernie sanders who actually had sound policies to back up his plans, this kinda comes off like trumpesque "he's the guy who will drain the swamp and cant be bought and blah blah blah" kinda rhetoric.

Also, feel free to watch some of the stuff he posted. I didnt watch all of it, but eh...Im not impressed with the guy. We'll come back to this as we go into some of the Biden bashers.

Mainly his proposition to cut the military budget and reallocate those funds towards social and environmental programs.

 Again, seems to be a fixation with ending the wars and cutting defense spending. 

Democratic voters really only have two questions these days..

1. Are you someone who isn't Trump?
2. Have I heard your name before?

This seems to be my impression. Imagine youre being polled, you dont like biden. But then when the three candidates: biden, williamson, and kennedy are presented, how many people will just go with kennedy because they know of the kennedy name? I dont go by political dynasties, and in cases like this it actually works to his detriment IMO, but yeah. Given how many people I've seen in previous polls want FREAKING MICHELLE OBAMA, the american public seems to have very little imagination, and seem to not know who most of these people are.

 The title should read “For the Biden supporters. Just why?” For a party that rallies against old, corrupt white guys, you picked a doozy

 I talked to this guy further asking what he meant and a common complaint I got was Biden's mental state. A lot of people think Biden is just old and senile. Uh....BIden sometimes looks like he forgets where he is, and he stutters, but I dont think he's full on demented or anything. Trump shows more signs of dementia in my unscientific opinion than biden does. Biden just has a stutter that seems to get worse as he ages. 

Also to go into the videos above, Kennedy doesnt sound like a great orator himself. Sounds like one of those people who smoked too much and end up in cigarette commercials speaking through a voice box. Almost expecting the dude to call me a "smoothskin" at some point.

 Gee debates would be nice , so an informed public could make an educated decision but I forgot BIDEN AND THE CORRUPT DNC RIGGED THE SYSTEM.

 Yeah, lots of progressives are pissed off as the dems refusing to have debates. I aint happy about that either tbqh. Dems are corrupt and do put their finger on the scale institutionally. BUT....this guy ain't it. I'd literally rather have biden by any objective metric than this guy.

I'm not really going to try and sell him but I feel like some of his negative qualities are overplayed similarly to how the media slanders Marianne (who I support over RFK- for the sake of clarity.)

When I look over his policies he seems strongly in favor of getting money out of politics, universal healthcare in some form, and debt relief for students.

His anti-vax stances are kind of yikes but he's still more of a "leave it up to the individual" type which at this point isn't much different than the state of indifference the federal government currently has. The people who haven't vaxxed at this point aren't going to be swayed and the people open to public health are multiple times vaccinated/boosted.

 Another decent one. Eh. I looked at his site on this blog as well. He didnt have anything solid policy wise just about. And his anti vax stance is cringe. Sorry, it is.

 

What blind contrarianism does to a mf* that’s pretty much your answer

 Yep. And this is a problem with much of the modern anti establishment left. They've lost their darned minds in the years following 2016 and especially 2020. At this point they are so anti democratic party some of them start sounding like republicans. It's no wonder Jimmy Dore types seem to be his biggest supporters on the left, despite this being a straight up betrayal to bernie's original ideals.

I know republicans who would support rfk jr against trump. It seems like a no-brainer. But libs are gonna lib for Biden 🙄

 This guy likes him because he's more centrist. Um...fair enough, but I thought most people on the forum I was on were progressive, so wanting to appeal to anti vax conservative types aint my priority. Quite frankly, screw those guys.

At this point I think a lot of Democratic primary voters are looking for anyone with a pulse that is not Biden. A lot of them probably are bought into the "Williamson isn't a serious candidate" crap and saw that RFK is related to JFK and just said "that's good enough for me, policy be damned".

 yeah a lot of these guys were also very anti williamson, given her law of attraction and manifestation based beliefs. Still, for me, I find RFK to be evenmore cringe. At least williamson speaks to issues I care about.

If you go to conspiracy websites like Infowars, you'll find comment sections filled with people supporting him, and some even claiming that they will vote blue for the first time to support him. It's not a coincidence that you're getting so many responders who can't answer your questions.

 Yeah he seems to have the nutcase vote locked down between his anti vax nonsense and the whole "his family was killed by the CIA" crap i got in a few comments. 

For me, he accepts and understands new important technologies like Bitcoin and the relationship the dollar debt ponzi and currency debasement has on society as a whole.

 Ugh, this is a lib right position. Those guys are obsessed with crypto for some reason. I find the fixation to be completely weird.

 

 Mainly I would support RFK because he’s not a geriatric and he can speak a little bit and because he’s not a career politician.. unlike you I don’t value experience in there.. need a fresh perspective

 The dude isnt much younger than Biden. And he looks and sounds older to me. 

And while IM not going to obsess over experience, this guy doesnt seem to have any discernible policy positions worth talking about tbqh.

It's simple for me. The DNC and mainstream media hate him and I'm tired of always having the plastic bought out president. I'd rather have an ineffective one than one who I know will screw this country over.

 Okay...interesting idea. Dont necessarily agree fully, same logic that got us trump, but yeah.

I'm not in support of RFK jr but it seems to me all people talk about is his vaccine opinion like that's the only thing in the world that matters.

What else do we know about him? I feel like it should take more than a bad hot take to dismiss a Kennedy.

I'm at the very least still interested to hear what he has to say on other topics.

Biden had plenty of baggage and cringeworthy statements he had made over the years and people still elected him.

I'll be honest the fact every article about RFK mentions his vaccine stance in the first like two sentences feels like a media character assassination.

 It's literally about the only position we have on record. So fair, next. 

I look at the whole package. I know williamson was criticized over vaccines and positions on medicine as well. I've lobbed criticisms at her myself. But she also has a lot of ideas I like. RFK has nothing of value tbqh.

His father and uncle were killed by the CIA he knows the real truth and will spread it. His track record on the environment is awesome. Has a track record of exposing corporate corruption. He is a mega disrupter. Business as usual has to stop.

 This is a pretty common position i've seen. Conspiracy theories, vague discussion about his time as an environmental lawyer, which makes him the "real deal" on climate I guess (what, does build back better and the green new deal not count for anything now?), and yeah, it really does come off with me as the trumpy nonsense.

 

 From what I gather he seems a traditional pre 2016 democrat. He’s not talking about identity politics, he’s anti big pharma (which sorry to break it to everyone traditional liberals have always big anti big pharma), and he is reminiscent of JFK and Bobby Kennedy, leaders who have long been considered the gold standard in liberal leadership.

 Lack of identity politics, check. Anti big pharma, eh, cringe. And honestly the kennedy name means nothing as far as im concerned. I really think we need to get over our nostalgia of this family. It's weird and creepy. 

not 120 years old and doesn't believe in magic healing crystals, i.e. better than the other two

edit: just heard him talk for the first time and it sounds like there's two obese Toads making love to each other in his throat so idk if this is gonna work

 Okay, so guys? I didnt see this edit until I went back to look at the messages. I'm laughing so hard. I cant stop. And it's true. 

As far as the original opinion, more comments on BIden's age, comments on Marianne's healing crystals, but I gotta respect that he's changing my mind after hearing that voice.

Normally i wouldnt crap on a candidate for their voice if they have good policies, but this guy doesn't, and given half the people act like Biden can't even string together a coherent sentence, it's fair game.

Biden... Dude appears to be a corrupt career politician... Dude AUTHORED the crime bill that created most of the social and systemic problems in minority communities. Dude had a mentor that was literally in the KKK, (Byrd.)

Now is taking credit for Trump stuff with insulin and the job recovery from THE PANDEMIC...

Don't look at inflation.... Don't look at the insane spending... Don't look at Ukraine... Don't ask questions...

Just obey The Party, like it is 1984.

Biden.... Why?... Just why?!?!

Still going on about stuff from 50 years ago? How has he governed recently?

Trump took credit for Obama if anything.

Biden is responsible for the recovery, but also the inflation. It's both. And neither is really his fault, just how things went. 

Ukraine, I support Biden's actions there. Spending, what is this a republican talking point?

 I dont like the dems either, but seriously i swear most of these people are more anti biden than pro kennedy.

 I support him and I'm a Dem. He's vaccine skeptical not fully anti Vax. There's a difference. There are a lot of Dems who felt the lock downs, or at least the most extreme extent of them, were over blown. Also a fair number with distrust of power. I feel that's warranted. Kennedy is progressive on the issues and has an exciting populist message. He's been an environmental hero for decades and can take big government agencies to task. He won't slash funding. He'll find holes and fix agencies and get them working. His reflex is to expose power. He is pro choice, pro environment, anti war. The foreign policy stances are appealing too. They're on the dovish side of the Democratic party. He reminds me more of Eugene McCarthy than he reminds me of his father. But McCarthy is a hero of mine, and I support RFK Jr. For president.

 To be fair, the whole "covid vaccine isn't safe" is an anti vax talking point. We can't say he's "just asking questions", when in reality he's JAQing off. 

Also, this just tells me what I already suspected, that people like this dude because they're actually on the right. I was pro lockdown and pro vaccine mandate. 

I dont understand the cult of personality around his environmental work. Again, Biden had BBB, Williamson supports GND...and this guy was a lawyer? Cool I guess, but still a distant third place for me. 

Beyond that, it sounds like the whole cult of personality thing we saw around trump. Like "he's the guy to do things and expose corruption and blah blah blah". Uh...how? We dont even know what this dude wants to do.

Anti-war. Anti-polluter.

  Anti war. Check. More vague environmental platitudes, check.

Against war on Ukraine & China. Focuses on ending corrupt industry regulatory capture. Calls out surveillance tyranny and AI totalitarianism risk. Wants to destroy rogue CIA, bring assassins to justice, close 800 military bases, calls out corporate poisoners of environ, calls out massive health declines and locates problem in regulatory capture, likelong track record of suing corporations and winning...

 More weird emphasis on being anti war, pro environment, and anti corruption without discussing any policy specifics. 

1: They're mostly people who vote GOP anyway, regardless of their registration.

2: They're overwhelmingly conspiracy nuts, and RFK Jr is a fellow traveller.

 Seems to be my impression.

Only RFK and Trump want to end the potentially nuclear situation in Ukraine. So, obviously, if you're anti-war and on the left, you're supporting RFK. Marianne's FP is dog####. I'm a single-issue voter in 2024. End the conflict, by whatever means necessary.

 More anti war nonsense...

You know Biden cannot talk on his own, right?

No, I don't know that. Anyway, Kennedy sounds like he has emphasema so....

Seems like the least we can do for the guy, the CIA did kill his entire family

More conspiracy nonsense... 

I love the anti vaccine stuff

Weird flex but okay...

Beyond that we start getting into the negative comments that got downvotes and weren't really that good. 

Summing up my observations

To sum up my observations...

1) A lot of these people weren't wrapped too tight. Lot of conspiracy nonsense, anti vax nonsense, and trying to explain away his anti vax views by saying hes not anti all vaccine just covid vaccine. 

2) Some seem to just want any alternative to Biden. 

3) Some just seem to attach themselves to the kennedy name.

4) As far as issues, he seems popular among people who are extremely anti war, anti vax, pro environment, and anti corruption.

5) People seemed to have this weird populist cult of personality around him, like he's the guy who's gonna end corruption and save the environment, often without expressing how.

And yeah. My total prognosis? This guy sucks as much as I thought he did. My opinion on him hasnt changed, if anything it's worse now, since he seems to be appealing to people I just have fundamental differences with in terms of things like values and worldview. 

I mean, I'm pro Ukraine, pro vax, while I dislike Biden and the DNC, I still see biden is better on policy, and the dude seems to attract this weird vortex of nutters and populists going in on a cult of personality over actual policy.

I care about policy. I care about what these guys wanna do in office. I dont like him because his policy goals dont seem to align with mine, and he seems to be going in the cringe direction of the knee jerk anti biden type people. 

I'm not impressed. Both Biden and Williamson are far superior candidates.