So, Kyle Kulinski basically had this debate on Krystal Kyle and Friends, and I thought it raised good points. And given my obvious centrist stance, I thought it would be good to give my own ideas.
My initial opinion unshaped by discussion
Going into it, my own opinion reflects horseshoe theory, both suck, both are just as bad, and practical mirror images of each other. Both are just as illiberal and both as authoritarian in reaching their goals.
But, the discussion did raise some good points, so I do want to address some of them.
Legal vs cultural authoritarianism
A big theme of the discussion seemed to center around this divide.. Kyle argued the right wing anti woke people are more dangerous because they're more likely to pass laws to impose their ideas on others. Basically, look ay Ron DeSantis in Florida with his authoritarian measures like "dont say gay", trying to influence the school curriculum by banning certain ideas, etc. The woke left doesn't have much institutional power and often doesnt use legal means to achieve their goals.
I have to concede this to some extent. While I think in terms of attitudes and the internal philosophical approaches to their ideology, both are rather authoritarian and illiberal, the right is more likely to manifest this through LEGAL action.
I mean, for another post, I've been researching the social positions of left wing politicians like Williamson and West and seeing how "woke" they are, and lets be honest, their most offensive positions in that sense are stuff like defunding the police or reparations. Ideas that I might range from being mildly supportive of myself, to opposing them, but not really overly vigorously.
Most left wing authoritarianism in this sense seems to come from the cultural policing they do. You got stuff like cancel culture, which they discussed somewhat and I discussed with the whole Rammstein scandal. You got Shelby Lynn talking about how this can't go on any more but failing to offer reasonably legal solutions. And honestly? A big aspect of the left seems to be that they dont trust the legal structures of things, so they do their direct action nonsense outside of the system, rather than trying to change it.
In a way we are fortunate the woke left DOESNT use legal means to achieve their goals. Because I already discussed the implications of their ideology on the legal system and wider society and I can't help but be terrified of what a woke left that uses legal structures to enforce their will would look like. Sure, we got some wanting to pass hate speech legislation and Im already concerned enough about that, but generally, the more extreme illiberal tendencies seem missing their actual behavior.
As such, I have to concede that the right wing anti woke people are more immediately dangerous. Still, in terms of ideology, i think both are pretty bad and I will insist on the whole horseshoe theory thing.
I would like to discuss the cultural policing the left does. On a lot of sites like reddit, tumblr, etc., the woke have a lot of institutional power. Theyve changed the TOS to fit their ideology, theyve made certain right wing views flat out against that TOS based on "hate speech', and they end up marginalizing the right and even the center like me, kicking us out of privately owned public spaces over simple disagreement. I dont experience much on the hate speech front but i have noticed that attitudes and ideas I had in the 2000s as a conservative now pass as "christofascism" to these people, and that's disturbing. Back in my day, we actually debated these issues openly and i changed my mind to become more libertarian and left wing due to REASON. In this modern environment where you either agree with the left or get banned, all that does is inflame people and drive them underground. It created schisms in our society that lead to more polarization and less understanding of others, and I really dont like that.
Also, let me just say on the more leftist spaces, their intolerance for any dissent at all makes me understand how places like the USSR became so authoritarian. I mean, they'll just ban anyone who even slightly disagrees with them, admits to being mildly capitalist, blah blah blah. It's ridiculous. I hate the modern internet and how much power the woke have.
I mean, with the rammstein thing, let me notice a tactic I've seen the left do. I see them come into pro rammstein spaces on reddit and basically go on about how we're so sexist and misogynist and intolerant and call on mods to crack down and ban people they dont like. They claim that the culture makes them uncomfortable where they cant express their realopinion because people will push back against them, so apparently we gotta all be censored so they can have a safe space to talk about their opinions. And then when called out they delete their accounts and start over.
They also tend to claim rammstein fans are being so violent toward protesters, while ignoring the obvious signs that say "kill Till" and stuff like rammstein fans being pepper sprayed at concerts (actually happened to a friend of a friend).
Like, they love to do the same thing fascists do of being weak and strong at the same time. They love to act like they're so strong together, but the second they get any pushback they claim they're weak and losing and anyone who doesnt think like them needs to be baned. So they do use their institutional power to silence others. They just dont do it legally. They do it more informally on social media and the like.
Then they turn around and claim cancel culture doesnt exist (despite having petitions to literally cancel rammstein concerts) and how free speech doesnt mean freedom from consequences (if youre trying to impose consequences on people that silence them for using their speech in a way you dont like, that's not free speech) and all kinds of weasel words to make it sound like they're not doing what they're doing.
I miss the old obama left of net neutrality culturally. Where the concern was private power can be as dangerous as legal power in its own right, and we need to create free and open environments for everyone. Basically wanting to expand legal rights into the private sphere. THis new woke left is against that and loves to play the whole "well its a private matter people can censor however they want" card. Which makes them sound like right libertarians to me. Like, they end up going all right libertarian when it comes to people getting fired from their job, or banned off of social media. And I find that disgusting and hypocritical.
So in the short term, yes, I'll agree with Kyle that the alt right, the anti woke people are more dangerous. The immediate concern is on them, but long term, I think both ideologies offer threats to liberty and rights within a liberal democracy and should both be fought vigorously.
Effective politics vs Nominal politics
So, Kyle brought this up and given I fall into the category of the person he wants to talk about, I want to address this point. But he seems concerned about the idea of someone who is nominally culturally centrist and rejecting extremes, like me, but then attacking the woke side more often. He fears this will create a right wing audience and think that someone like me should be fair and balanced.
So I wanted to address that, but no, I dont think it's a concern. Yes, I punch left a lot more often. That's because I see left wing ideas as more engaging and interesting to talk about. I write about topics that interest me. As I said, you cant force people to care, but when I do care, I write about stuff. So I end up criticizing the left, from another kind of left or the center.
The right bores me. When I do discuss the right, I feel like im saying "i like good things and hate bad things". I mean, really, most right wing ideas arent worth discussing. They're intellectually bankrupt, I've torched their entire ideology on this blog before, and that isnt the only article I've written like that. I really have so little respect for conservatism that they quite frankly dont deserve my attention.
And quite frankly, I cant see the right liking me for long since I am that outwardly hostile toward them and pull no punches. The thing about this blog is i actually discuss ideas in detail, I not only rip into others' ideas, I compare and contrast them with my own. So even if i attack the woke left, you should obviously know what my ideal would look like instead. I feel like this would turn off a right wing audience since right winger probably think im crazy. And just because i denounce the woke doesnt mean my perspective is in any way friendly to theirs.
Conclusion
So yeah. Ultimately I do think both sides are just about as bad in the abstract, both are illiberal, authoritarian, and opposed to my goals for society. Still, the right is a much more pressing and immediate threat overall, and effectively im going to vote left anyway in opposition to them, so yeah. The left, in terms of organized politics, is much more harmless, and woke ideas in political platforms are not only much less harmful than concentrated cultural wokeness, they're also often decent or at least not terrible ideas worth discussing.
The problem with the woke left is that they're insular, mostly online, and act through less than legal means when their stuff does meet the real world. And while they should not be ignored as a threat, they just arent as immediate as a threat as the anti woke right is.
So yes, I'm a cultural centrist, I oppose both, but yeah, I'm gonna be voting and advocating in terms of actual political action against the right a lot harder, while most of my criticism of the left is as toothless as their action, it's just us badmouthing each other into the void. And it shall remain that way until their stuff meets the real world.
And yeah, that's my thoughts on this subject.
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