Responding to ESS's posts this week

 So, ESS, or "enough sanders spam" is an anti bernie sanders subreddit. I don't post there, because hey guess what, I'm an unapologetic "bernie bro" who voted green party TWICE and i still despise the democratic party in some ways, so I'm not a good fit there, but I do sub to them for balance. Anyway, I've been seeing some decent posts there and because I'm still too big of a "bernout" for them to avoid breaking their strict rules against criticizing the democratic party or their queen hillary in any way, I do see some content I feel like responding to, so I'm going to respond here instead.

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This is, presumably, in response to the Israel/Palestine thing. Which is a reason I decided to do this. because as you guys know, I'm falling out with the left big time over this issue. 

Anyway, I myself have wondered if it's ever possible for their Bernie left to be satisfied. They do seem way too purity testy these days and I really dont see how going this hard into the palestine direction does anything to advance their cause. 

This is what separates me from a lot of leftists, I do have a solid set of values and policies I'd like to see supported, and I don't sway from them. hell, that persistence in their advocacy is why I couldnt support the democratic party in 2016 and 2020. And the reason I'm being more positive toward Biden now is 1) because I recognize he is advocating for at least some of what i support, and 2) yeah...I kinda realized none of this matters if trump becomes a dictator. Like it or not, trump has become too much of a threat to be allowed to be put in power again, so I've decided to suspend my normal purity tests this time around just to keep trump out of power. This is not to say that I'm enthusiastic about Biden. I'm in a position where both Biden and the left have some positions I like, but also some positions I don't like. But yeah. I do try to be as consistent as possible. 

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So this is an aspect of ESS that I think is worth pointing out. ESS is where a metric crapton of modern identity politics came from. Well it came from the neoliberal wing of the democratic party. Remember how hillary had nothing better going for her so she decided to voter shame by calling us racist, sexist, and privileged? And remember how going into 2020 the left adopted a lot of postmodernism to try to account for the defeat handed to us in 2016? yeah.

The fact is, Bernie's movement has radicalized since 2016. To a point where I no longer consider myself part of the left. Doesn't mean I like ESS and the like, but yeah. The fact is, all of this anti white stuff is basically those postmodernist chickens coming home to roost. Rather than embrace a liberal ideology based on equal rights, we ended up getting a gross overcorrection of whatever white/male/cis/straight/christian biases existed. And now we got this weird camp of leftists who are anti that and demand we sacrifice our own views on an altar of white male liberal guilt. And I'm one who wouldn't. I didn't when ESS types told me to check my privilege and vote hillary/biden, and I won't now.

But yeah. I keep saying it, you guys (ESS) are responsible for this crap. If you didnt weaponize this weird dimension of politics in 2016, perhaps it would've remained fringe. 

But now it's mainstream. And you don't like it. Sucks, doesn't it?

This perfectly shows how some on radical left can become sympathetic towards radical right-wing views

So apparently, this woman who was a feminist and liberal Bernie fan got extremely upset when Bernie didn't get the nomination. She spiraled into a state of mind in which even though she was anti-Trump, she also saw him as someone who was fighting the "deep state". She seems to have changed her thinking, but still, isn't this further evidence of how the staunchest leftists can become vulnerable to believing in stuff that makes them align with the right? Even right now, among all these leftists saying that they won't support Democrats because of Biden not being harsh enough with Israel, I'm seeing/hearing a lot of conspiratorial stuff that is very similar to QAnon conspiracy theories. Sure, the arguments aren't as heavily socially conservative, but people on the far-left and who support QAnon both believe in a rigged "deep state" that seeks to prevent populism from becoming a reality. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/13/qanon-radicalization-bernie-sanders-supporter-503295

I hate to keep blaming ESS for the state of the modern bernie movement, but sadly...it is their type's fault for this mess. You pissed a bunch of people off so bad that now they're so anti democratic party that they wrapped around to being pro GOP. Yeah, we're talking WOTB types and the like. Jimmy Dore. I discussed why I don't align with them any more. But yes, I blame Hillary supporting neolib types for those guys becoming so extreme and tribalistic in the first place. You tried to bully people into supporting you and you went so far you drove them to trump. Thanks a lot. 

I backed away because again, I'm consistent to my own principles, but it seems people aren't so staunchly principled as I am so..yeah. 

Where does this sub lean?

 Like, what are the most popular opinions on this sub? I'm a liberal, but lately I'm completely disgusted by the radical left, led by Sanders, Rashida Tlaib, etc. I'm a Liberal like the Clintons and Tlaib and Sanders are taking this party to completely terrible places like the MAGAs

 Hillary clinton left basically. So neolibs, democratic party apologists, blah blah blah. 

Anyway, dont blame Sanders for this one. As I keep saying, Sanders is a freaking moderate compared to his rabid fanbase these days. I'm dead serious. He is. And I'm a moderate compared to them. Now, Tlaib, yeah I saw what she was doing with her pro palestine comments and I have to say I find her to be extremely cringe. I don't necessarily agree with her being censured given there are republicans openly calling for palestine to be turned into a "glass parking lot" and nothing happens to them, but I can't say I approve of her views. 

What does the far left even want?

After seeing all these radically leftwing people who oppose supporting Democrats, especially on the internet, it's come unclear to me exactly what political outcome they want. Do they perhaps dislike the right but have some moderate sympathy towards the far right because they figure "Well, at least the far right is anti-establishment," or is it that they don't like the far-right at all, but are convinced that the far-right would motivate revolutionary action?

 It varies. Some are accelerationists, some would prefer the far right over the left. Some are just so anti democratic party they wrap around to being more aligned with the right under the whole "populist" banner. 

I can tell you with me, I just wanted to make the democrats move left and embrace the agenda posted above. I'm very clear about what I want and what I am for, and I believe that if the democrats don't offer it, they're not entitled to my vote. I hope to show, through my refusal to vote for them anyway, that they will try to shift left and pivot to voters like me to win me back. 

I'm perfectly okay with the left using vote refusal as a show of force to force the democrats to adopt those positions. And I will vote for candidates who are pro my agenda. 

However, that doesnt mean I in any way support the alt right. I have explicitly called for people to NOT vote for them under ANY circumstances. Of course, some leftists have gone off the deep end so hard over "populism" they will, but ultimately, my goal is to just force the dems left to adopt progressive positions they typically don't. That's all. 

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Now, first of all, this is what I mean by privilege shaming. The ESS left will voter shame the left with this privilege crap but then they'll turn around and bash them for taking it so far they become unironically pro palestine. 

But beyond that, yes, that's why in 2024 I'm suspending my normal goals in order to keep trump out of power. None of this matters if democracy falls to Mango Mussolini. The threats associated with the GOP have become too great that even I can't ignore them. If the GOP just did normal GOP things, I'd be fine with throwing the dems to the wolves in order to pressure them left. But this is something much darker, so yeah, even I have to accept that for the immediate future, the GOP is a greater threat that needs to be dealt with, with electoral oblivion. 

Don't think I like you guys too. Your self righteous behavior and shaming us is why we're in this position in the first place. if Bernie had won in 2016, we wouldnt be in this situation. This cancer has been allowed to fester because the democrats dont offer anything. And that's why we face the scary prospect of actually possibly reelecting this guy.

Is the far-left, anti-semitic?

 So I’ve been noticing that many many one far left, such as The Humanist Report, have been openly hostile towards Amy Schumer and Sarah Silverman over their anti-Hamas statements. Interestingly, both those people are ethnically Jewish, and the far-left seems to talk about them more than anyone else who is similarly critical of Hamas.

 I dont think they are intentionally but they're pushing into that territory in their weird postmodernist views on the issue, showing hostility toward "privileged" people and falling for several anti semitic tropes in the process. 

Why do leftists get mad when one of their own (Bernie, AOC) endorses Biden?

If anything, that should be further proof on how effective Biden is. I don't think people (Democrats and Republicans) understand just how much Biden was able to accomplish in 3 years that Obama nor Clinton nor really any president since maybe LBJ or Nixon. The only criticism people really have at this point is his age, yet Reagan was the oldest president at that point in history and he was able to do his job just fine. And also I noticed that people make a big fuss over Biden's age yet I don't hear people mentioning Trump's age.

Anyways, I think it's nice seeing more and more progressives coming out and supporting Biden.

 Because they see it as selling out to the establishment of the democratic party, thus neutralizing their progressive politics where they stop being the advocates for the changes we need, but start being a team player essentially captured by the establishment. Which is why a lot of them are turning on Bernie in the Biden years. 

I am somewhat sympathetic with this position but think it's gone too far. Not only has Bernie effectively shifted the Biden administration significantly to the left of where it would've been otherwise, but honestly, when bernie goes against the progressive left, he does it with good reason a lot of the time. Like when they went after him for not calling for a cease fire with hamas. It's like, bro, who you booing? Bernie's right. But it goes against their narrative so they dont wanna hear it. As I said, a lot of bernie's supporters have radicalized so much they make Bernie look moderate. 

beyond that this seems like typical centrist circlejerking. Biden didnt really accomplish that much. He was railroaded by congress and the courts at every opportunity. However, I grade by effort and Biden has tried to push things so he gets credit just for that. 

And yeah I think the issue with Biden's age is he not only IS old, he LOOKS old. As I said, dude looks like he wants to take a nap when he talks half the time. Other people in that age range like Bernie and Trump have far more energy.

 

 Are leftists right that it was wrong to censure Rashida Tlaib?

 

 I keep seeing leftists argue that the fact that some Democrats voted to censure Tlaib over her remarks is wrong and that it's supposedly racist in that it's censuring the only Palestinian-American person in Congress. Are they right? On the one hand, I agree that opposing Israel's current government isn't the same as being pro-Hamas. However, she's doubled down on using a slogan that's been being used by those who support Palestinian nationalism. It's a phrase that is for completely getting rid of the state of Israel and not just opposing the current government of Israel. Plus, as far as I know, censuring is just a formal condemnation. I know that the Republicans who censured her aren't doing it in good faith, but I think Democrats understand that it's unprofessional and insensitive to keep repeating that slogan, so verbally calling her out is perfectly fine to me.

 I think that Tlaib's pro palestine comments are distasteful, although i can see an argument that she didn't really mean them in a genocidal way. Anyway, I dont support censureship because 1) i support free speech, 2) republicans are literally calling for genocide against palestine in effective, and 3) i think it's possible she meant her comments in a better way than they were taken.

I think her behavior is cringey but I take her explanations at face value and dont really wanna go into psychoanalyzing her statements. 

I could go on and on but you get the idea. I just felt like, as a more reasonable "bernie bro", explaining my take on these issues, given Im in a position that I also have developed increased disdain for leftists in recent years, although I still ain't cool enough with these people to fit in with them.

Hell, I still blame them for causing these guys to radicalize as much as they did. its reverse psychology. if you piss people off so much, not only will they not do what you ask, they'll do the opposite out of spite, and that's...how we got here. And while im a bit more rational and able to move beyond that, a lot of people aren't. 

The fact is, I hate both this type of insufferable center, and the left. And unironically think both suck at this point. Still, given the current issues of the day I am finding myself unironically agreeing more with ESS than what has become of the bernie or bust movement and its extremism. 

Again, Bernie himself...is a MODERATE compared to these people. I really wanna drive this home. ANd his base in 2016 was a lot more moderate back then. it only radicalized after 2016 for various reasons, adopting increasingly extreme ideologies to the point I noped out too around 2021. The fact is, i already had an ideology, it wasn't that, and whatever alignment i had with his movement back then is no longer really a thing.

And while ESS types will NEVER accept someone like me (nor would I want them too), I do find myself agreeing with them from time to time. The fact is, I kinda hate both sides and am just in my own island of middle away from everyone else.