Monday, April 22, 2024

Am I evil?

 So, someone asked me this today, and I thought this would be an interesting discussion, given my opinions about subjective and objective morality.

The answer I gave him is this. Some people might think I'm evil because I don't conform to their value system. I also might think they're evil because their value system sucks. And round and round it goes...

It's true. I've had debates with right libertarians who think I'm evil because I wanna tax them (aka "steal" resources from them to redistribute to others), whereas I think they're evil for wanting a world where people are forced to work for others to survive. I think work, especially forced labor is evil. They think redistribution is evil. We can debate all day, and I used to do this with libertarians back in the day like 10 years ago, and we wouldn't come closer to agreeing.

The same can be said with Christians. Christians think I am an unrepentant sinner and that I constantly defy god with my views. I think they their divine theory inspired morality is regressive and violates my proto-utilitarian principles. Keep in mind, for me, the first goal of morality should be to reduce suffering and death. But, as I said today, many people with such moral systems don't care about such things. Their views are based on divine command theory, period. They think I'm evil for disobeying their god, I think they're evil for trying to force people to embrace such a regressive and harmful moral system. 

The same can be said of leftists. I don't care enough about certain causes, like feminism, or palestinian rights, what have you, and think I'm evil for being "selfish" and not checking my privilege. I think that a lot of leftists are straight up psycho morally. I know some of them still act like violence is the way to achieve goals, and a lot of them also arent particularly amenable to my own causes.

The fact is, while I would argue there is some level of objective morality in the sense that failure to at least make a good faith attempt to reduce suffering and death is counter to the very goal of morality, and that some behaviors are so messed up that they can't be justified by ANY reasonable moral standard, and that those behaviors and mindsets are objectively "evil", in large part, morality is going to be somewhat subjective. Even if we did all agree on at least the above basic premise, and sadly, some don't even get that far, there's still a lot of debate about how to best get there. That's the whole reason so many different political ideologies exist. Do we favor safety and security or liberty? Do we favor individualism or collectivism? Negative duties or positive ones? Do deontological moralities do better than purely consequentialist ones? There's debate, and we're gonna heavily dispute each others' systems. 

To some people, I might be a "bad" person. I wrote an article about this recently and said I don't care. because ultimately I dont feel bound to their morality. And I might even embrace the black marks they try to make against me and fully own my own morals. They might think I'm evil for that. They're free to do so. And I don't generally care. Alternatively, I might think they're evil by my standards.

I kinda think looking at things purely as good or evil is kinda immature. I admit the person who asked this question kinda has a more virtue ethics approach to things, and does have a fixation on this topic as a result, even if I see it as unhealthy. He also has said he dislikes my morality on many occasions. I dont really care. 

The fact is, this isn't even a productive way to view things. Unless you're out there killing people and torturing them and harming them actively, or doing things that are actively harmful to them, you're probably not OBJECTIVELY bad. Beyond that, it's all subjective. And even then, some might be able to justify negative actions in some contexts. Like, I just got done running around remote planets in starfield offing mercs and space pirates and stuff. By the game's own rules, I face no negative consequences for doing so. After all, those guys are "the bad guys" and they arent very nice people, they'll kill decent civilized folk in a heart beat, and if I run around killing them, some might see me doing the universe in that game a favor. But at the same time, those guys probably have their own way of looking at things too and they might see me as bad for raiding their bases and stuff. Still. 

Keep in mind what i said about foreign policy too. I mean, I kinda believe to operate effectively in that field some moral flexibility occurs. Is it justified to give israel money if they're causing a palestinian genocide? What if failing to do so could spark a broader war and cause other harm? What if all of these issues are one big trolley problem where we have to debate who lives and dies? I mean, under such rules, even actions that aren't really good in and of themselves can be justified in some larger moral context. Even the most black and white stuff isnt always black and white, and there are exceptions and nuance. 

As such, this topic doesn't seem really worth discussing from someone who is more morally advanced, as defined by someone who is more knowledgeable of morality and doesnt have that same old black and white religious system that often serves as one's first morality, that most never grow out of. The more advanced you get, the less black and white things become to some degree. And while I would argue there are some lines that shouldnt generally be crossed, most stuff is subjective, and even among those lines there are trolley problems and tradeoffs. 

And yeah. As far as I go, I dont really see any reason to consider myself evil. I dont particularly harm people. Definitely not physically. Emotionally...maybe I can be a cold person, but all in all, I fail to see any reason to consider myself evil. Although others might think so because I fail to abide by their moral systems.

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